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Old 12-15-2006, 07:27 PM   #1
Mike ODonnell
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Default Fish Oil, really this good? How much is too much?

So in Poliquin's latest article he says:

" The Single Best Supplement

Q: What's one supplement that every athlete, weekend warrior, and basically any active person should be taking daily?

A: Fish oil. I was first introduced to fish oil twelve years ago by my friend Mauro DiPasquale. I was over at his house and he had fish oil on the counter. I asked him what he used it for and he said, "Charles, this is the most important supplement ever."

He told me to go to Medline and punch in any disease known to man and the words "fish oil" beside it. He challenged me to find a study that didn't show how fish oil could benefit in the treatment of any disease. I gave up after 86 studies!

Why is it so beneficial? It's in our genes. Humans used to consume 300-400 grams of omega-3s per week. If we consume more than two grams a day now it's considered a lot.

Looking at the body structure of cavemen, they had a lot of muscle mass compared to modern man. They got their omega-3s through the meats they ate. Now, they often ate what the predators left. For example, a lion will eat an antelope from the gut on, so what's left is the skull and long bones. Primitive man would break the skull open and eat the brains. Brains are 60% fat, and 60% of that is DHA, the omega-3. What they've found is that the more brain-sucking was going in those populations, the faster the IQ went up.

Primitive man would also break the bones of the prey and suck the marrow, also rich in omega-3, DHA particularly. DHA is the omega-3 most responsible for brain development while EPA is most associated with reducing inflammation.

My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I'd be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That's how I got the nickname "the fish oil guy" among athletes. But that's also how I get people so lean so fast.

Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the ass with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil. "


Here's a question however...is there such a thing as too much fish oil? 30-45 grams a day is alot. Are there people that shouldnt do this? (health conditions) Do excess blood thinning cause more internal problems that are not talked about here? What conditions/diseases would be negatively affected by the lack of blood clotting and increased blood thinning?

Also...what is not mentioned is about Vit A & D levels (more in fish vs cod liver oil). Is 30-45g fish oil going on the verge of toxic A & D levels?
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Old 12-15-2006, 07:34 PM   #2
Steve Shafley
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There's so much fish oil stuff going on and I haven't ever sorted it out fully.

-Sears' assertion that the more concentrated the oil the better
-Decent brands
-Krill oil? Where does it fit in?
-Massive dosing?
-Caps vs. liquid

Etc.

For the record, I take ~10 Sams Club fish oil caps daily.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:57 PM   #3
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
There's so much fish oil stuff going on and I haven't ever sorted it out fully.

-Sears' assertion that the more concentrated the oil the better
-Decent brands
-Krill oil? Where does it fit in?
-Massive dosing?
-Caps vs. liquid

For the record, I take ~10 Sams Club fish oil caps daily.
My understanding:
1) Sears promotes concentration (pharma grade) and then pushes his brand at like $80 a bottle in his book Inflammation Nation
2) I know Carlsons and Nordic Naturals have been tested positively by consummerlab.com for having what they say they have on their label.
3) Krill Oil. No idea...but isn't that Mercola's new pitch? Does he sell it too? Will have to go look into that more
4) Massive dosing....I guess that goes back to my orig post, can too much be bad? I guess if you don't want to bleed to death internally from an injury or hermoraging....dunno.
5) I would say liquid over caps as caps add the filler from the caps (more stuff in the body that is not healthy?)...Plus 1 tablespoon = 12 caps roughly?.....so if you go by Poliquin's 30g a day....that's roughly what 6 tablespoons (1 tbsp=5g) or 72 caps a day? Yikes.
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Old 12-16-2006, 11:33 AM   #4
Frank Needham
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Purely anecdotal (I'd hate to be the dog(s) used in the study!) but strongly supports the use of omegas:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...3798&tools=bot
"Prevention of ischemia-induced ventricular fibrillation by omega 3 fatty acids.

G E Billman, H Hallaq, and A Leaf
Department of Physiology, Ohio State University, Columbus 45210.

Small right arrow pointing to: This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.
Abstract

A specially prepared dog model of myocardial infarction was used to test the efficacy of the long-chain polyunsaturated fish oil omega 3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic (20:5 n-3) and docosahexaenoic (22:6 n-3) acids to prevent ischemia-induced malignant cardiac arrhythmias. The dogs had sustained a prior experimental myocardial infarction from ligation of the left anterior descending coronary artery, and a hydraulic cuff was implanted around the left circumflex artery at that operation. After recovery from that procedure the animals were tested during a treadmill exercise test. With compression of the left circumflex artery sensitive animals will predictably develop ventricular fibrillation (VF). In such prepared dogs an emulsion of fish oil fatty acids was infused i.v. over a 50- to 60-min period just before the exercise-plus-ischemia test, and the effect on development of VF was recorded. The infusion was 100 ml of a 10% (vol/vol) emulsion of a fish oil concentrate containing 70% omega 3 fatty acids with free eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid composing 33.9% and 25.0% of that total, respectively. Alternatively, some animals similarly received an emulsion containing 5 ml of the free fatty acid concentrate plus 5 ml of a triacylglyerol concentrate containing 65% omega 3 fatty acids with eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid composing 34.0% and 23.6% of that total, respectively. In seven of eight animals the infusion of the fish oil emulsion completely prevented the acute occurrence of VF in the susceptible animals (P < 0.005). In five of five of these animals the subsequent exercise-plus-ischemia test after a similar infusion of an emulsion in which soy bean oil replaced the fish oil fatty acid concentrates resulted in prompt development of VF. Possible mechanisms for this protective effect of omega 3 fatty acids against exercise and ischemia-induced malignant arrhythmias are considered."

On the other hand maybe I'll give the method a go
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Old 12-16-2006, 02:47 PM   #5
Dave Van Skike
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I just switched to the nordic naturals liquid. Not bad taste, even my kids will take it. I have read somewhere (maybe mercola) that Nordic nat. has been tested to be very good quality. But FWIW, I had a Doctor of Neurochem. and Psychology tell me he uses costco brand caplets and prescribes the same for all his patients.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
There's so much fish oil stuff going on and I haven't ever sorted it out fully.

-Sears' assertion that the more concentrated the oil the better
-Decent brands
-Krill oil? Where does it fit in?
-Massive dosing?
-Caps vs. liquid

Etc.

For the record, I take ~10 Sams Club fish oil caps daily.
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Old 12-16-2006, 03:15 PM   #6
Pierre Auge
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I use what has the highest concentration and which I can afford at whatever time that is... Currently Jamieson, might give the flameout a test drive though since it seems to have quite a bang for the buck.

Can't believe I'm considering buying something from t-nation!!!
But I guess they are no worse than any pharmaceuticals company...
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:16 AM   #7
Frank Needham
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I take cod liver oil, orange flavor. Reminds me of cough syrup? It doesn't bother me too much but my wife nearly hurls when she gets even a whiff of it. Kinda odd I think considering she's filipina and will eat anything that moves
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Old 12-17-2006, 01:21 PM   #8
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Dan John says he really likes the Flame Out. I haven't tried it.
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Old 12-17-2006, 02:18 PM   #9
Mike ODonnell
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Hmmmm....after doing some investigation I see that Flameout has much higher DHA than EPA. While EPA is good for inflammation, it seems DHA is more vital to brain, eyes, heart development. Looking at Fish Oil, that's 2x more EPA than DHA.....I'll have to go back to the store to see if there are other oils more DHA dominant.

So I guess the real question...is what is the ideal ratio of EPA/DHA for optimal health/inflammation control. I'm guessing it is a higher DHA, which can not be found in "standard" fish/cod liver oil. Interesting....never looked at that angle before.
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:54 PM   #10
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I heard someting about a problem with all the vitamin d in clo synthetic or something? not sure why but them on my bottle of Carlson's I noticed they stated it did not contain any D or A like it was a selling point? Does anybody have info on what the deal is with that?
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