Squat program - Q for Greg/Aimme

[Richard Thomas]

A few of questions for Greg/Aimee

I am about to embark on a squat program and am looking at doing the hatch squat program as per Mikesgym.org.

Aimee: I read on the CrossFit forum that you got good results from this program but also from another model that was back squats once per week for 10 sets of 3. When you did this one, did you do any front squats at all? Or would you recommend doing any? I will continue to do the CA wod as well as the squat program but do not want to over do it.

My current figures are 100kg for the front squat and 130kg for the back squat, and naturally, I am keen to improve both of them.

Cheers, Keep up the good work.
Richard
www.crossfitsydney.com.au

[Joe Hart]

Richard,

I just got done with the Hatch program. It worked pretty good. One thing that I have noticed is that the rest of your program should be toned down a bit. To quote Greg "It will take the starch out of your britches" (love that line). I did some Clean and Jerk, Snatch and Push press on seperate days and kept it at 5x1 or so. I went from 114 kg to 135 kg on Back squat and 110 to 120 on front squat. Next week I am going to start the 10x3 program.

I used to hate squatting, but now I like it alot.

Good luck.

[michael cooley]

Aimee or Greg-

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, too -- particularly Aimee's as it appears she has worked with both Hatch's program and Coach B's program of 3x10 squats.

I think in another posting you mentioned that you liked them both, but ultimately thought the 3x10 worked better for you. If you have a few minutes, could you elaborate on what you thought was better/worse about each of the two programs and how you have implemented them?

Thanks in advance!

mpc

[Greg Everett]

For Aimee, 10x3 has worked better than anything else. She actually didn't do well on the Hatch program, but in my opinion it was because she was trying to snatch/CJ/pull too heavy too often at the same time. For the Hatch program to work, you really have to pare down the rest of your training.

So like Joe said, you're better off sn/cj pretty light 2-3x/week during the program to keep the movements sharp without wearing yourself too thin.

I would use 10 x 3 in the CA WOD if I thought people could handle it, but I think it's too much with all the other work and the relative inexperience. I think a good place to start would be to simply change the 5 x 3 to 10 x 3 in the CA WOD, although you'll probably need to drop the %s by 3 or so.

[Richard Thomas]

Thanks for that Greg, I will do the 10x3 in place of the 5x3 and less 3% as you said.

What about front squats? Would you recommend a similar approach for these as well?

Obviously I will black box it and see how the body responds.

Thanks Joe for your Hatch program feedback as well!

[Greg Everett]

Yes, same for FS

[michael cooley]

Thanks for the feedback, Greg!

Is it the higher "reps per set" format in the Hatch program that makes it so much more difficult to complete while maintaining other lifting?

For me, my training now is generally limited to 3x per week, so I tend to work a lot into each session (and focus on recovery on off days). Sunday with the team is generally reserved for SN and CJ -- usually 8-10 singles for each at a relatively high intensity (90% and 85%, respectively, last week).

Tues and Thurs are for more generalized strength (e.g., squats, pulls, presses, push presses), which also means my two available heavy squatting days are only TWO days apart. At 92kg and 37 y.o., recent PRs are a 92 SN, 124 CJ, 155 SQ and 190 DL. Leg strength is generally the limiting factor, as I invariably have pulling strength to spare. As a result, my volume tends to favor squatting over pulling.

From your experiences, and your comments below, can you tell me if you have a sense whether my time would be better spent giving Hatch's program a try or 10x3? Presumably, with Hatch I'd do "Hatch 1" on Tuesdays and "Hatch 2" on Thursdays. With the 10x3, I'd probably front squat Tuesdays (since it involves lighter weights) and reserve Thursday for the big 10x3 squat day.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions? All would be MUCH appreciated!

mpc

[Greg Everett]

Yes, Hatch is tough largely because of the high volume. I'd recommend trying out the 10x3 first and see how that works for you - you may be able to get away with not modifying the rest of your training much if at all (although you will find those snatches and CJs tougher most of the time).

[Aimee Anaya Everett]

Sorry for posting late! i missed this thread!

Richard- I did do front squats as well. I think I did the 10X3 back squats for 12 weeks. the first few weeks I did 10X3 BS on Monday and 10X3 front squats on Wednesday, with another heavy FS on Saturday. After a few weeks I changed the Wednesday front squats to a heavy single instead of the 10X3.

Michael- Yes, as i mentioned on Crossfit, the 10 X 3 worked better for me. But I think I am the only one who saw such fabulous results. We think the Hatch didn't work for me, as Greg mentioned, because I was still snatching very heavy every week. Now, I was doing what was Rx'd each week through the Hatch program, and my squats (for reps) were increasing each week. So I was getting stronger, but not STRONGER. With the 10 X 3, I felt so much stronger overall. I was able to do my squats on Monday then immediately snatch heavy. I was able to lift heavy every day, and my legs got so strong during that cycle. So for ME, this program worked. It enabled me to still focus on my lifts, while getting my legs super strong. With the Hatch, I was not able to do so. Also, I believe my body and my strength responds better when I keep the reps down. So 10s and 8s and anything over 5 made my lifts suffer so greatly that I was just not willing to make that sacrifice. I felt like I was training for a marathon.
Now, I am not saying that the Hatch program is bad. It just didn't work for me. I have seen it work for other people, Greg for example, but we have to do a lot to adapt to my body and what it responds to. I am just one of those freaks... a little outside the norm.
Because I love the 10 sets of 3 SOOO much, we have recently worked them into my training, slightly modified due to my injury, and I feel stronger already!
It is mental too, Michael. I believe in them so much, so they are bound to do great things for me!

[michael cooley]

Thanks so much for the detailed response, Aimee!

After 10 years of training and competing (from 77's up to 94's), I'm still such a chronic "routine-chaser" it's embarrassing. It was much easier when I was training at LBH in New York and had Artie Dreschler to just tell me what to do each day. :-)

I expect you and I are somewhat the same where the Hatch program is concerned. The higher reps leave me gassed afterward (like a heavy CF metcon!). I had that trouble with 5x5 squatting, too. My 5-rep squats progressed, but ... like you say, I got stronger, but not STRONGER.

That said, my age/recovery/work generally limit me to 3 sessions per week. That makes 3x10 tough, because after 10 heavy triples, there's not much left for pulls, etc., and I can't really afford to have squatting-only workouts.

Interestingly, I'm thinking more now that perhaps the CA WOD is worth a try for me. I can take the three principal workouts each week (Mon/Wed/Sat) as the foundation, and add in 1-2 of the lighter technique movements as needed - probably after squatting as a warmup to the pulls! Alternatively, if I'm feeling particularly saucy, I can even jack up the squats from 5 sets to 7 or - *gasp* - even 10.

I'm not really posing a query, but I think I'm answering my own question all the same. Higher rep squats leave my legs gassed for heavy cleans, and higher set squats take up too much of my available training time. Sounds like I need something that strikes a happy medium, and puts me back in a place where I just show up each day and somebody tells me what to do (hmmm...like CA WOD?). :-)

Comments, thoughts, observations?

mpc