Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Olympic Weightlifting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2009, 12:29 PM   #1
Steve Kaspar
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 38
Default deadlifting

i have 1 day a week to do this exercise, so i try to combine endurance as well as strength. i warm up with 10 reps 60#, another set of 10 with 100#. then go to 150# 20 reps, then 170# 10 reps, then 200# 5 reps, 200# 5 reps again, then 220# a single, then 230# a single. a good workout, or are changes needed? just building strength/endurance.
my best is 360# at 145#, but i dont wanna lift that heavy anymore, as i'm afraid of injuries. i did those weights when i was playing ice hockey in the 1970's..
53 years old, 6' 145#
thanks
steve
Steve Kaspar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 01:07 PM   #2
George Mounce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 945
Default

Thats an awful lot of volume in one day. I know in the CFT article Rip talks about a warm-up for the CFT lifts (of which the deadlift is one) then go for 1 heavy pull. I think you'd get more benefit out of this. My guess is your deadlift for a bunch of reps isn't as deadlift as you think. The bar must be on the ground not moving, and no stretch reflex is to be involved. Too many people I see that are doing multiple reps don't put the bar down and let it be without motion. This is essential for a good deadlift set.

If you do the deadlift correctly the result isn't a chance of injury, its a chance of getting stronger.
George Mounce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 01:36 PM   #3
Jay Cohen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 416
Default

IMO; way to much w/u with light weight, not enough work at your workset.

Look at the SS program for rips warmup and work set method.

Rip also suggests that you do only one set of 5 at your workweight. Not that you couldn't do a 5 x 3 or even a 5x5, but the point is.

For a 225 workset, I do a set of 5 with bar, 5 x 95, 3 x 135, 2 x 185 then nail 5 x 225, I also the DL at the end of W/O, which starts with squat, then press, end with DL. so my back is pretty warm and ready to go.

Most people do way to many warm up sets, then are pooped for the worksets.

You want to build more speed and endurance, add Powercleans.

Just my two cents
Jay Cohen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 03:50 PM   #4
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kaspar View Post
i have 1 day a week to do this exercise, so i try to combine endurance as well as strength.
i'd drop that and do one or the other...nothing magic just chasing two rabbits at once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kaspar View Post
i warm up with 10 reps 60#, another set of 10 with 100#. then go to 150# 20 reps, then 170# 10 reps, then 200# 5 reps, 200# 5 reps again, then 220# a single, then 230# a single.
if you are doing this for endurance..don't. I'd do times sets of DL at a medium heavy weight keeping the reps low (<5) or do a straight DL session.

if you are doing this because you need a longer warm up that's fine.. some of us need long warm ups... here's what i do.

1. KB swings and snatches. on and off for 5 min.
(DB snatches work fine..db swings are IMO ungainly and stupid.)

2. rest a few min and then, progressive pulls
cleans, a set of 2-3
hi pulls a set of of 2-3
a dl with hard shrug once set of 3.

3. a couple of light dl's at 60ish percent maybe with a little shrug at the top but if not, no big deal. a double at 75%, a single at 85% and then>

4.a couple singles. maybe three sets max, at 90% OR if you like big 5's, one set of 5 at 80-85%

if this isn't enough volume, you can always hit a couple back off sets of 8 with RDL's. If you are worried about too much DL volume I'd reduce the vol. above one quarter and do be more efficient in the warmup.

I do this exact routine on after squatting often replacing the top set of DL with three sets of increasingly heavy RDL's, I feel stronger when I'm done than when I started. I try to hit everything snappy and fast....speed over load.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 04:10 AM   #5
Adam Gagliardi
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 171
Default

I have used working up to a heavy single then dropping 30- 90 lbs and repping it out. we used this for contests with a DL for reps. may look like:
135*5
225*5
315*3
365*3
405*1
455*1
385*12 or whatever could be managed, there wouldnt be too much else after this though
Adam Gagliardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 06:41 AM   #6
Allen Yeh
Senior Member
 
Allen Yeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,245
Default

I'd like to echo what Dave said. Pick what you want to do on that day and it do it. An idea would be to alternate one day going for higher repetitions and one day going for lower reps. Or even a 2 week heavy and 2 week not as heavy, there are tons of way to skin a cat here.

I'm curious as to why you want to work endurance with the deadlift? Is it for cycling specifically?
__________________
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
Allen Yeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 08:33 AM   #7
Tim Luby
New Member
 
Tim Luby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 42
Default

In my own experience, I've tweaked my back worse from high-rep DLs than heavy ones.
Use DLs for strength and metcon for endurance.
Tim Luby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 02:45 PM   #8
Gant Grimes
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,373
Default

Using the deadlift to improve endurance is about as useful as going to spin class to get stronger.

What are your goals, Steve? Based on the questions you've asked, you're interested in getting ripped abs; you don't understand why anyone would get big and strong but sacrifice abs; and you want to combine strength and endurance.

Spell out your goals and what you're willing to give up for them (strength, muscle), and we can help you. Is this for cycling? Do you realize some extra strength will help you? Do you realize that vastly improved strength with little bodyweight gained will improve your strength to bodyweight ratio?

I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you brush off a lot of the advice you receive while still asking questions. You could get better advice by being more specific.
__________________
"It should be more like birthday party than physics class." | Log | 70's Big

Last edited by Gant Grimes; 01-12-2009 at 02:47 PM.
Gant Grimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 07:54 PM   #9
Steve Kaspar
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 38
Default deadlifting

rant, and everyone else
as always, thanks for the replies.
grant, your not being rude at all. hell, i listen to everyones opinions.. usually, if i ask 1 question, i get 10 different reoplies. i try to use all replies to see what works for me. in a years time, if you get a few good pointers out of lots of questions you ask, all the books you read, and all the internet surfing you do, your doing very good.... i have 48 years of training in me and i still ask questions. there are always new exercises to try, as the old school way isnt always the best.... most of the time it is, but its great hearing from younger guys, giving their opinions.
i try new things that may not work for the traditional powerlifter/bodybuilder or CF guy, and they may not want to train my way either, but then their not racing 80 mile road races... i see some of my younger competitors at mile 70 of a 90 mile road race and they are all over their bike, struggling... all the heavy training, or rep training i do year round makes my body relaxed at this point in a race.
as far as abs, hell i got a great 6 pack. i'm 6' 145#, but always wanted a better one...
there is a fine line in getting bigger and stronger in cycling, as i have seen a few of my own friends, one that placed very high in nationals this past year, struggle big time and get dropped on the 3-4-5 mile climbs.. we cant have it all. track racers look like arnold, and are good at track explosive racing, and guys like me are ok at road races. i have been 6' 145 my whole life...
it be nice to look like arnold, run like carl lewis, be as strong as bill kazmier, cycle like lance, get the babes john holmes got, but i just try to improve at what i currently do..
i thank you and all others on the board for the help and replies.
i'll have more questions... we all want to get better.
thanks again
steve
Steve Kaspar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 08:35 PM   #10
Gant Grimes
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,373
Default

Ok, so let's assume you want, in order of priority, 1) to improve your cycling, 2) to stay at the same, or lighter, bodyweight, 3) to get stronger.

If you're training for centuries and crits, you're not going to get much bigger, no matter what kind of training you do. You're a naturally lean dude, and you're simply burning too many calories and doing too much distance training to maintain significant mass. You can still benefit from heavy basics like deadlifts, overhead squats, and other movements to strengthen your trunk.

You might want to check the CrossFit Endurance site for some more ideas. Some of those folks have combined CF workouts with some endurance-specific training. And read Paleo Diet for Athletes (Friel/Cordain) if you haven't already.
__________________
"It should be more like birthday party than physics class." | Log | 70's Big
Gant Grimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator