Work Capacity: how much is enough?

Craig Brown · 04-09-2009, 12:55 PM

I like Ron Shaul on this stuff...check out the military section at www.mtnathlete.com .

Good use of general and specific training, with clear thinking and planning.

Craig

Garrett Smith · 04-09-2009, 01:01 PM

My main thought on long metcons is that they should be used sparingly, if at all. They are low power output and require huge recovery times.

If some CFers can do mostly standard CF and a relatively small bit of running to complete 100-mile runs, I see no reason to believe that someone doing CF regularly can't do a (soul-sucking) chipper well at the drop of a hat.

Ari Kestler · 04-09-2009, 02:18 PM

I could be totally off base here and I don't intend to hijack your thread in posting this, but something I've been thinking about lately....there has been a lot of criticism of CF for these chipper style workouts and how the excessive way that CF uses them leads one to CNS fatigue. Granted, I haven't actually compiled a database of the last 100 workouts or what not, but from my limited browsing and recollection it doesn't seem like CF prescribes THAT many chippers...if every 2 weeks you scroll down the main page and look at the workouts it doesn't seem like you are seeing >20 min chippers consistently.

Now, another thought I had was that HQ might not intend for a workout to be a chipper, it only becomes a chipper if you are not fit enough to complete it the way it was intended. I'm not pointing fingers because I fit in this category for a lot of these workouts. I'm just saying, following CF and scaling if you aren't up for it works out better than saying, forget CF I'm doing my own thing I want short metcons...

This is just something I've been thinking about recently, you don't see speal, OPT, Josh suffering from CNS fatigue, probably because most "chipper" workouts are not as soul crushing to them as they are to me.

In short, I believe that for most people, the CF programming is probably a little excessive and will lead to burnout/overtraining...however, once you become relatively proficient at CF (by any way, be it hybrid, ME, CA, etc...) regularly doing CF probably isn't that excessive and won't lead to burnout.

What do you think?

Other random thought, I'll often look at a long workout or a chipper and check out a fire-breather's time...say OPT...I'll multiply by some factor, in most cases, 2. If that workout takes me longer than that time, it's too excessive for my current level of work capacity and I'll plan accordingly.

Justin Chebahtah · 04-09-2009, 02:26 PM

Robert Callahan · 04-09-2009, 03:52 PM

I remember watching a video of Dave Castro on programing a while back and basically what he said was that good CF programming should consist primarily of couplets and triplets (two and three modality workouts respectively). That you can use a chipper workout every once in a while but they should be use sparingly because of all the reasons others have already mentioned above.

So it would seem to me that the "official" CF line would be to use chippers very sparingly and to keep most workouts in the shorter metcon time domain.

A lot of affiliates probably use a ton of chipper workouts because they kick your ass and a lot of people come to CF looking to get their asses kicked. Doesn't mean it is good programing, it is just what they do...

David Boyle · 04-09-2009, 04:06 PM

My two cents:

When I train my guys w/ metcons and other methods...ie crossfit, kettlebell, parkour..etc etc.

First thing first it has to be done in boots and utilities.

I've realized that too much time is spent in pt gear...(looking at the gen pop on base's where I've been).

PT gear is fine every now and then.

I've tried to make it has a reward or privelage...rather than a right.

Also keeping everything in the "green perspective". I try to fit a "helen" wod into a conditioning session and afterwards I have the Marines grapple. However this grapple session simulates a suicide bomber trying to blow both of you up, and you have 30 seconds to get off/up and run away b/f I say beep...your dead...this is after 3 minutes of just plain ol grappleing.

I've noticed that by doing this...it keeps the "combat mentality" going. When you constantly train in pt gear and lack the reason for the madness...we get complacent and "best time" hungry.

Just my opinion.

Semper Fi.

SSgt B.

Justin Chebahtah · 04-09-2009, 07:08 PM

Emily Mattes · 04-09-2009, 07:40 PM

On another forum a Marine said he'd like to see military/fire/whatever folks do more Strongman-style training, so you get conditioning but with shorter periods and a lot heavier weights. I started a thread on it a while back.

Donald Lee · 04-09-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily Mattes

On another forum a Marine said he'd like to see military/fire/whatever folks do more Strongman-style training, so you get conditioning but with shorter periods and a lot heavier weights. I started a thread on it a while back.

I trained for a month with Scott Brengel, the professional strongman, who wrote an article that was posted in that thread. The strongman implement that killed me the most was the sandbag. I think training with heavy sandbags would be extremely useful for the military.

Also, training with strongman implements and the duration conditioning workouts aren't directly related. The same implements, with lighter weights, can be used for longer conditioning workouts if preferred.