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Old 11-06-2009, 08:52 AM   #1
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Default I am having a serious disconnect with hip drive in the clean and snatch

Can someone please give me an iota of what I should feel or some "cues" in order to get myself to do it.

I'm not getting tall enough on either lift and it's causing me to go foreward to get the weights. I need to stop that - and that's likely because I'm not driving correctly with my legs from the start (perhaps my hip position is too low?); and I'm rehabbing from a knee tweak of last week, so all my weights are light and my movements power. Kinda frustrating when you get injured and have to train around stuff. But par for the course and the joy of age. Oh, and I hate box squats, but they are taking the strain off my knee, so I'm doing it.

w/f/s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2WK86Baonc

Thanks in advance for any commentary. I'm hoping that Greg, Glenn, Yoon, or Mike can comment.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:46 AM   #2
Michael McKenna
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I do that same thing. Questions:

1. Do you always use straps to snatch?

2. What's up with the knee?

3. What's going on with the pause in the clean?

To fix it, try this: snatch from the hang, then snatch below the knee, then snatch from the floor. Don't put the bar down. That might work if you've done the snatches right int he past; you'll remind your nervous system what to do. I give this a 20% chance of success. Relax your arms consciously when you do them.

Observations: Your hips look a little high. You don't look comfortable at all in the start position.On the cleans, your back is rounded when you pull off the floor, and it moves- the bar path changes when you hit your arch.

This reply is disjointed and not organized, I apologize. I'm throwing things out quickly because I need to go set up for tonight. Basically, you look like you're fighting the movements the whole way. Is there a big change int he environment other than the knee? Cold? Time change?
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:39 PM   #3
Greg Everett
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only watched the first 2 snatches, but based on that -

You're starting too far over the bar in my opinion and looking at the floor - this is just setting you up to be pulled forward and chase the bar with your hips. You can start in that position if you really want, but you will have to make way more of an effort to get back on your heels right when you separate the bar from the floor and to stay there all the way up to the top.

I'd prefer to see your hips down considerably, bar over balls of the feet, eyes straight ahead.

Sit back and up when you break the bar rather than lifting it straight up, and always think of bringing the bar back into your hips rather than pushing the hips to the bar.
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:47 PM   #4
Yuen Sohn
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Arden,
Regarding the cleans, it looks like you're doing something funky with the arms as soon as the bar clears the knees. I think that's probably affecting your power somewhat. I'll go into more detail later on...
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:23 PM   #5
Yuen Sohn
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OK:
Here's two of your cleans (starting from just below the knees and ending at the rack), slowed down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ips1p-Ojw

That mini pull/row you do moments after the bar gets above knee level seems to be contributing to a disjointed 2nd pull. Seriously relax the arms and make the motion more fluid.

Last edited by Yuen Sohn : 11-06-2009 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Added a '2nd'
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:45 PM   #6
Oliver Gould
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Early arm bend and the hips are rising before the chest. I'm sure Greg will come along and straighten you out, but I'm gonna make two suggestions (mostly to see if they line up with his )

1) Drop your hips a little more at the start, keep your arms straight and pick your chest up to take all the slack out of the bar.

2) Pull by bringing your chest up and stay back so that you can drive hard through your heels.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:36 AM   #7
Martin Bonn
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Right so bearing in mind i m a beginner too:

what helps me to finish the pull and stand up with the weight is to hang on just a bit longer than i want to. so next time, leave another split second before you go under the weight. (easier said than done, my coach uses the cue 'stretch' and 'stand up with the weight')

hope that helps.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:52 PM   #8
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Wow!!! Thanks everyone. It's going to take me a while to digest it all, but i'll get it. I'm too OCD not too.

Yoon - wicked thanks for the slo mo. i knew there was something going on with my clean, but I couldn't sort it out. I've been working up to 150 basically curling and rowing the bar. No wonder I'm trying to pull the bar so high.

Mike, the knee is getting better. I tweaked it squatting deep last week. It's getting better. It's okay for a few reps, then it aches. I'm just being overly cautious.

I'll summarize the above so I can digest it. But first, I am going to think about it. Need to make certain I understand. I hope that makes sense?

Thanks again,

All the best,
Arden
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:08 AM   #9
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Again, Many thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Here's what I've deduced I'm going to do my darndest to work on in as session less than an hour away.

Snatch:
1. lower hip position.
2. sit back more
3. push the bar back by contracting my lats and sticking out my chest hard.
4. neutral head - straight forward.
5. drive my heels through the floor throughout the pull - keep the bar close.
6. pull straight instead of throwing my head back.

Clean
1. lower hip position.
2. sit back more.
3. push the bar back, contracting my lats and sticking out my chest hard
4. netural head - straight forward
5. drive my heels through the floor throughout the pull - keep the bar close.
6. arms remain straight - shoulders stay forward and don't go back - no Rowing!!!
7. pull straight intead of throwing my head back.


We'll see what happens. LIkley too much to soon. Less bad habits than one year ago, but still a lot to work on.

Thanks agian everyone.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:17 PM   #10
Martin Bonn
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good luck with all that! gotta be hard to work with weights that must feel so light for you! i admire your patience!
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Snatch: 103kg
Clean & Jerk: 124kg
TOTAL: 227kg

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