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Old 04-23-2010, 09:04 PM   #1
Brian Gill
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Default Pat Mendes/ John Broz

There has been a lot of talk around the internet about this guy squatting 350kg raw, snatching 200kg, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFm9...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6mRbQG-PL4

Here is the interview with his coach John Broz, who from what I can tell advocates a Bulgarian Style program, and makes claims such as "overtraining doesn't exist, your simply undertrained"

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121212081

Thoughts on his training? I can't see how these guys can continue to train 2x/day, 6 days a week. Im not trying to claim there are drugs involved because Pat might just be a freak of an athlete, but how are they adhering to a program that seems like it was designed in the peak of the eastern bloc steroid era?
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:56 AM   #2
Derek Simonds
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I don't know that much about weightlifting but if he can jerk what he can clean shouldn't he be competing on the world stage? Maybe he is and I just don't know, I didn't google.

That was some impressive lifting.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:15 AM   #3
Brian DeGennaro
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The body adapts to the training. Everyone, including Pat, started training 3x a week, gradually moving up to 7x (if they wanted), then started adding sessions when they felt they could handle it. And don't go on the assumption that fatigue is nonexistent in that gym. Everyone has bad days, everyone has amazing days, but weights lifted are ~90% range routinely but I'm sure John stops the movements once technical failure hits (especially on squats, notice Pat never really grinds them out). You adapt, and once your body becomes accustomed to the volume you get stronger.

If you want to get good at something, you're going to practice it every day to the best of your ability. Phelps trained 7 days a week, I'm sure Michael Jordan practiced as much as he possibly could, and Pat is doing the same. I've heard of lifters the day after winning their medal at the World or Olympic stage, getting right back into the gym to train twice a day, lifting heavy. They bust their asses day in, day out, and are dedicated to becoming and staying the best.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian DeGennaro View Post
The body adapts to the training. Everyone, including Pat, started training 3x a week, gradually moving up to 7x (if they wanted), then started adding sessions when they felt they could handle it. And don't go on the assumption that fatigue is nonexistent in that gym. Everyone has bad days, everyone has amazing days, but weights lifted are ~90% range routinely but I'm sure John stops the movements once technical failure hits (especially on squats, notice Pat never really grinds them out). You adapt, and once your body becomes accustomed to the volume you get stronger.

If you want to get good at something, you're going to practice it every day to the best of your ability. Phelps trained 7 days a week, I'm sure Michael Jordan practiced as much as he possibly could, and Pat is doing the same. I've heard of lifters the day after winning their medal at the World or Olympic stage, getting right back into the gym to train twice a day, lifting heavy. They bust their asses day in, day out, and are dedicated to becoming and staying the best.
This isn't a bash @ anyone but the stuff I've read from Broz indicate that He does not believe in stopping @ a missed attempt. I've read interviews where he talks about Maxing Every Day and taking multiple max attempts that result in failure. also brian, if you watched to the end of the vid, you'll see Pat do one of the grindenest back squats i've ever seen from an Oly lifter...it was a thing of beauty/ugly.

i'm not being skeptical, honestly fascinated with the guy but i'd love to hear some first hand accounts of people in the upper age brackets instituting his approach or how someone adapted this approach to anything other than weightlifting.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:17 AM   #5
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For the lifts John doesn't believe at stopping, allowing up to 6 misses but usually around 3 in training; if he sees some fire in their eyes he lets them go at it as many times as they want. Squats, he either doesn't let them miss more than 1 attempt if any. And daily maxes vary. Some days it can be a new PR, other days it's 50kg.

From what I know, Broz trains this way and has trained this way for the last 20 years, and is now a 40 year old Master lifter. If I recall he said somewhere his bests were 162 and 190 for the snatch and CJ respectively.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:39 AM   #6
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Interesting points Brian, but I think the comparison to Michael Jordan practicing everyday is a bit off. Jordan would be practicing his jumper, dribbling, and other skill aspects to his sport, hardly load bearing, super stressful activities like squatting or near max snatches (but I understand what you are getting at).

But you may be right though in terms of other elite olympic lifters. I'm not up on the day to day training of Oly lifters but if the majority are training like this and recovering and making gains, then I'm a lot further behind than I thought! haha

Another thing is the "bad days". I've had days where Im rested and recovered but still had bad technical days in the weight room. But his bad days seem to be fatigue related so shouldn't these days be recovery days for his athletes. (Once again Im not trying to bash his coaching and training, Im just very interested in some other insight to it)
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:53 AM   #7
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That's exactly right, bad days are just the body's way of making you take it easy in order to help recovery. It's like an active recovery day. As John's coach, Antonio Krastev says: "you can always lift the bar." If you haven't noticed, ABG's lifters are pretty technically sound, John is coaching them the right movements and technical proficiency. Like I said, he doesn't make these guys lift with bad technique.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:23 AM   #8
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have either of you talked with him? met anyone training under him?
i read, again i think it was an interview, where he advocated this approach for strongman/PL/ etc.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:54 AM   #9
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I've spoken to him several times about all this.
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Old 04-24-2010, 12:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian DeGennaro View Post
I've spoken to him several times about all this.
What did he say about applying this approach to other strength sports?
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