Question of Strength, Feb '06

Allen Yeh · 02-26-2007, 11:15 AM

Another Q and A with Charles Poliquin, interesting stuff as always.

In this months Q&A he states:

"So, the worst exercises are the dumbbell power clean and the one arm dumbbell snatch. I don't know any successful top strength coaches who use those."

Aside from coaches that have to do with Crossfit and the like I'm pretty sure Charles Staley is a big proponent of 1-arm snatches, I definitely consider him as one of the top strength coaches. Paul Chek is also the person seen demonstrating the db clean in the article.

What's your guys take on this? I kind of never liked the DB clean and preferred the barbell version anyway but what's your feeling on the 1-arm snatch?

As for the rest of his article nothing all that earthshaking jawdropping, and the Biosignature Stuff does seem somewhat interesting.

Mike ODonnell · 02-26-2007, 11:42 AM

BB clean far superior to the DB clean...and I'm not a PL expert, but too easy to not use the right force tequnique in a DB clean (aka people will curl it up), probably limiting strength gains...plus you do more weight with a BB. Clean is meant for a BB in my book.

1 arm DB snatch....I think it is a great metabolic and conditioning tool. Again for strength though....a BB is superior.

Each has it's own place in a program....for strength BB is king....for metabolic DB works great.

Greg Everett · 02-26-2007, 12:56 PM

as mike kind of says, the db versions will never allow the same loading as a barbell, and so for strength development, they kind of suck. but for metabolic conditioning and variety, they're great. if chuck p is being very specific about strength training, i agree with him. if he's talking strength and conditioning, i disagree.

Russell Greene · 02-26-2007, 12:57 PM

I wonder what Dave Leyes thinks about this article.

Ron Nelson · 02-26-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell Greene

I wonder what Dave Leyes thinks about this article.

. . .and Mike Rutherford.

Ooops. Just saw the picture in the article. Funny thing is, Charles Staley misunderstood the question and it sounds like he's saying he's in the picture. Ha.

Steve Shafley · 02-26-2007, 03:18 PM

I think on a spectrum of success, Poliquin rates higher than Staley, and Leyes isn't even on the map. Sadly, except in the world of the PMenu and Crossfit, Mike Rutherford is pretty unknown as well.

On top of that, Poliquin really is as mad as a hatter. Whole lot of smoke, but where's the fire, if you get my drift. Not that what he's offering doesn't have value.

Staley offers "personalized" training to those in the Staley Training Group, but guess what? Everyone gets the same program. You can pull that off the WOD.

Ron Nelson · 02-26-2007, 04:14 PM

I'd have to agree with what you said, Steve.

I caught on to the Staley Method right after buying [u]Muscle Logic[u]. I learned nothing I didn't already know from his T-nation articles. EDT is pretty simple to understand. Get as many reps in as you can in 15 minutes.
Next time, get more. I liked it for a while, then got distracted and moved on.

Polquin? He's 60/40 for me. 60% great info and tips. 40%, WTF?

Allen Yeh · 02-27-2007, 03:29 AM

Mike Boyle seems to like the db snatch as well:

"I love DB Snatches. We have used them with all of our athletes for years with zero injuries. The draw-in has become controversial based on McGill's work. I updated the core chapter in my new book Designining Strength Programs and Facilities.

I have to say I consider myself a reasonably successful strength coach so , there is at least one that uses the One Arm DB Snatch. There is actually a great video on my website www.michaelboyle.biz of Tricia Dunn, a three time Olympian, DB Snatching 60 lbs for 5 reps. She has never had a shoulder problem."

Mike has always come off as really knowledgable and would err on the side of caution when injury is a concern.

James Evans · 02-27-2007, 06:20 AM

Are they going to rehash this debate every month? It's getting boring.

I found the inane debate as to whether that was a young Charles Staley quite amusing though.

Dave Van Skike · 02-27-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Everett

as mike kind of says, the db versions will never allow the same loading as a barbell, and so for strength development, they kind of suck. but for metabolic conditioning and variety, they're great. if chuck p is being very specific about strength training, i agree with him. if he's talking strength and conditioning, i disagree.

I think I have seen a carryover from heavy DB snatches to power cleans.
Once I got over half bodyweight on DB snatches, there is a seems to be some carryover. Maybe it's speed strength or whatever but the third pull, hip and shoulder shrug are much snappier for me now. I can say this with soem confidence becuase I don't do olyliftign jsut power cleans and an occasional BB snatch, but I do lots of heavy unilateral work, swings, snatches etc.