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Stavros 2009-11-24
Well written and truthful take on a BS situation. Way to keep integrity and honesty. I hope things can work out for the better, but it's obvious you and Robb will be fine no matter what happens.

Keep you head up!
AW 2009-11-24
Man I really want to see that video.

Nick 2009-11-24

I know this kind of avoids the question, but this is a legitimate inquiry that is actually applicable to training.

It seems that your post indicates that the "shrug" at the top of of the clean is not proper technique. Am I missing something? I was a collegiate football player, and have been crossfitting for almost 2 years, and have always tried to focus on the second pull, which I believe requires an exaggerated shoulder shrug once the hips are fully extended. My football coaches and crossfit trainers have consistently praised my technique.

Please advise if I am doing something wrong.


PS. HQ is a fascist regime-so many people are cutting ties, its only a matter of time before "Crossfit" is an afterthought...
Philip Mancini 2009-11-24

You're a class act and a great individual.

Nuff said.

Greg Everett 2009-11-24
Nick - Not everyone in the coaching world agrees with me and others on the shrug issue. But I and many others teach the shrug as part of the third pull - the pull under the bar. The legs and hips accelerate and elevate the bar. Watch video and look at photos of the world's best lifters in the final position of second pull extension and you;ll be able to see this quite clearly. To speak to Russell Berger's review, quoting me as saying "i go back and forth on this" (meaning the shrug issue), this is not what I was referring to, and quite clearly. My going back and forth was on what the actual cause of the shrug was - I believe it is a natural part of the pulling of the arms, and i also offered Ryan Kyle's idea that it was at least in part a recoiling of the traps after being released from the stretch of the second extension force - and on whether or not it should be connected to drills teaching the second pull of the snatch and clean or kept exclusively in drills teaching the third pull.My book discusses this in much greater detail if you're interested. I don't recall it being in any articles. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Daniel Lyell 2009-11-24
Great to hear your side of the story as well. Robb and Dutch have already mentioned their side of things and it was good to have things cleared up from your end as well. While I'm deeply saddened by the state of crossfit HQ, I'm glad you all haven't given up on us crossfitters yet. I love crossfiting, and am glad we won't be left behind.
Nick 2009-11-25

Thanks for clearing up my confusion. I will assuredly research this to improve my technique.

Devin Ford 2009-11-25

Thank you for helping the community all that you have and continue to do, its not your fault or anyone else's that they have their heads up each others political ass.
Boyle 2009-11-25

Incredible all that transpires at these seminars these days. Just the latest in a alarming number of incidences where CFHQ has stepped on their "crank."

Cheers, and thanks for the PM Journal and your book (it rests on my night stand...may not get read very often...but its there!)
Steven Low 2009-11-25
Keep up the good work Greg.
Audra 2009-11-25
Greg - neither you or Robb should even be in the situation of having to explain yourselves relating to the seminar in my opinion.

One benefit of being an adult is that we get to listen to what people have to say then either agree and share that information with others or forget it.

Everyone in that audience paid to listen then make their own decisions on whether they agree or disagree - probably based on information that they have learned from CrossFit, other fitness education and general business sense that comes from running an Affiliate. Why would CFHQ not respect these professionals to make their own educated decision on whether the information that was presented was valid or not?

If Dave and Tony disagreed with what you were presenting, that is totally acceptable (they are adults right?). What isn't acceptable and seems to have been displaced in many earlier posts is that they acted in a very unprofessional manner surrounded by approx. 50 Affiliate owners that have an expectation of their professionalism as representatives of our "corporate headquarters".

When sending someone to "observe and report" as was obviously the plan here, HQ should send people that are able to control their emotions even under the most strenuous circumstances -- that would be best for all involved.

I am not only a better athlete through my training with you and Aimee but a better trainer and affiliate owner - thanks!

Chris Salvato 2009-11-25

I read this on Robb's blog and I am reading your perspective here. Just keep up the good work. Ironically, the good cream does rise to the top. I have had my own, silent, personal disagreements with the CrossFit business model and I am actually glad to see some of my gripes are coming to a head. I am sorry that you had to be fodder for the situation.

Keep your head high. You and Robb are providing a lot of inspiration with the work you are doing. Personally, you have both shown me that, eventually, I can do what I love and make a good living from it so long as I do it well. Its just a matter of time before I get to that point myself!

rollo 2009-11-25
I have to agree with Phil. What a classy guy Greg Everett is. It must have taken a massive amount of self control to put up with castro's nonsense, especially him puttin his hands on you. And this article was super classy too, very level headed.
Joe 2009-11-25
Berger's conspiracy theory is ironic considering Castro, Budding & Berger showed up to disrupt or discredit the black box summit.

Bottom line is that there is simply no excuse for Castro's behavior or HQ's firing of Wolf. They have a problem with anyone suggesting ways to improve their product. They should be grateful that you're not selling slop to customers and calling it Crossfit. Instead, the people who are peddling 20% slop and weighing and measuring Big Macs are celebrated.

Market forces are glorified when they generate affiliation fees but when they force someone to admit they have been giving crap advice to people for year snd need to man up and change, then it's time for a meltdown.

grambo 2009-11-25
This will be ridiculous if the CFJ actually publishes that crap. The truth is obviously out there already and no one is going to believe it. Although mainsite Crossfit.com, the forums, journal site etc delete comments immediately when any mention of this conflict is raised. Pathetic, moderators must be sitting there 24/7. Why can't Castro just apologize, what a loser.
Jody Woodland 2009-11-25
Wow. Simply unbelievable.

Haven't met the other folks but have seen enough of their much-videoed selves and read enough of their loosely-connected-to-reality hyperbole to find their recent behaviour plausible if inexcusable.

Greg, you are a credit to an industry where professionalism, integrity, and true expertise are in unfortunately short supply.

When I attended your seminar in Seattle in February, we talked after hours about some of the oddities and conflicts in the CrossFit world and you never once took a personal shot at any of the people who came up. It is truly sad that the same can not be said of many of them.

One thing that GG repeats is true in this case - the quality of the service you, Robb, James, and people like you provide will win out. You will be successful, regardless of your relationship with CFHQ.

Sorry you're going through this. Pretty sure you can handle it, though. Hi Aimee!

Jody Woodland (still lurkin', still workin')
Wayne Lewis Combat Crossfit 2009-11-25
Keep up the great work Greg!!!
Jacob 2009-11-25

Having followed your training methods as well as Robb's, Dutch's, James', and Rut's, it is obvious to me that you guys have "evoloved" from the "one-size fits all" mentality of the HQ approach and are very much interested in improving quality in this community. Your professionalism in what transpired is remarkable and I have no doubt the "fallout" for Castro, Budding, and CrossFit, Inc. will be tremendous. I've seen this egotistical dogmatism for some time, experienced it personally at seminars and on the Mainpage, and can say honestly that intelligent and reasonable men and women know the truth. To the rest, "to hell with them", they are simply blind followers with no regard for intelligent debate and self-analysis, both of which are exemplified by you and Robb and are essential for any hope of achieving a top tier health and fitness program. The actions of these HQ representatives are simplify out of fear, insecurity, and jealousy for the knowledge, experience, and success that you have accomplished by your OWN efforts.
Jennifer Higgins 2009-11-25
I listened to you at the Summit last weekend and I wish I could've listened to you for hours more. Thank you (and your book and the PM Journal) for being a HUGE part of my continuing education as a trainer. Your contribution to the weekend was not lost to the participants despite all. I had never had the chance to hear you and Aimee speak or teach before and it will be one I search out again. Thanks
Jen in Tucson
Angela Childress 2009-11-25
Gregg, I don't personally know you and have never met you. But I have gleaned so much information from your articles and website. I want to thank you so much for all that you do.

I find it interesting that those two in particular are basically accusing you or leaching off the CF community, when you Robb Wolf, Rutt, Rip, and Burgener have done so much to help build this community.
Brett 2009-11-25
You and Robb are true professionals. Your website, PM, and book have made a big impact on my own development as a trainer and I thank you.
You guys offer so much free information, I don't know how anyone could believe the allegations of you trying to benefit in some nefarious way.
Thanks again for your dedication to the community!
Chris Rice 2009-11-25
And people wonder why I workout in my garage gym all by myself?

Leo S 2009-11-25
So how long till the CF spin-off originated by the Robb the Liar & Greg The Jokester sees light?

By the way if they didn't let you know - I'm the person who's responsible for writing this article. Makes me feel all warm & fuzzy inside.

"Suffice to say, I love CrossFit and I love the community, which is why I have remained involved for almost six years, despite receiving similar treatment the entire time while happily being used (without compensation) for coaching at certifications and various other duties, and continued attempts to shut down my business and discredit me."

That was very weak, Greg. Very weak.
Chris 2009-11-25
In some large way none of this (the information and discussion being shared between those individuals to whom this situation took place) is up for public discussion but I feel involved because I am a part of the community, movement, affliation (which means company) and incredible instruction under yourself and Coach Wolf. So if going into it further is not something you would like to do I find that professional and understandable. BUT I am like Alice/Neo and want to find out what the f**k happened down the rabbit hole.
Have you been contacted by Glassman or any other HQ staff since the "disagreement?"
Besides being told "you are done" by Castro has anyone said anything to you regarding leaving (willingly or not) CF?
I just find it interesting that even though Wolf jumped in and commented on HQ being unable to take criticism - then some exchange of words - then wolf saying they can take his job and shove it - Im failing to see how the issue has now jumped into Wolfs lap. It seems the problem/disagreement/issue/attack was at you (saying youre the leach-you should de-affiliate-you hate crossfit) to now Robb being the only one fired and pushed out.
I was not so aware of your own past problems (if any - Im not saying there were any) with CF but I was aware of Wolfs. This kind of seems personal between y'all and directed directly towards Wolf – now at least.
Just trying to find out if you have any answers/opinions to this. (as stated if you wish to "drop it" I totally understand/respect that and if I had a hat it would be off to you)
P.s. I also think youre a damn liar! Ive personally seen the blueprints/diagrams/emails/telegraphs/coded syphers and maps of your long time planned destruction of CF. Your motto "Death to the Empire" I can remember being yelled at the end of your seminars in which the second day involved giving us LSD and telling us to switch sides. I also have information/video on how you and Wolf have been involved in 9/11 - WWII - the killing of Jesus - Princess Diana and the destruction of dinosaurs. Everett means "devil" in eskimo so it all makes sense now....... ;)
Duey 2009-11-25
Hey Leo...your weak...
ken c 2009-11-25
"everett means 'devil' in eskimo...." indeed it's all making perfect sense now. damn funny.

what in tarnation?! you california guys come to texas and all hell breaks loose. hopefully everyone involved can apologize for whatever inappropriate behavior they feel they may have displayed and squash this thing. its about all we can do as imperfect adults.
Robb Wolf 2009-11-25
Apparently we did not administer ENOUGH LSD, you remembered everything.
Jocelyn R 2009-11-25
Very eloquent response Greg. I appreciate hearing your side of this schmozzle and wish, for your sake, that you weren't in the middle of it. Even though I am far removed from the epicenter of CrossFit (I'm in Canada) I still feel a strong sense of connection and community to all involved, especially the high profile guys like yourself and Robb. Why? I'm not sure! I guess I just feel like I've gained so much from you both though all your efforts to share your knowledge on your blogs, the PM, videos, etc. The cream really does rise to the top and the respect the community has for you has been undoubtedly EARNED.

You've presented yourself as a class act in this post and, I suspect, most things you do in life. For that, you have the continued respect and support of many, many people around the world.
Just Sayin... 2009-11-25
Who is Russell Burger anyway? At the tender age of 23 how can he have any training experience beyond monitoring the college recreation center circuit training program.
Eric R 2009-11-25
Got a call from my friend who attended after this happened. His account is exactly in line with what Robb and Greg have stated and it still boggles my mind how things could fly so out of hand. I am glad I got to meet you and Aimee at the cat athletics seminar earlier this year. The good thing is that there are too many out there who have met you and seen your work to allow any form of slander or libel to affect you or your business. Keep it up, I know I speak for many others when I say your contributions have made a major impact on the way I coach my clients.
Andrew 2009-11-25
This siminar was not about HQ. It was about affilates becoming better for their clients and improving the good of the community as a result. To try and turn a blind eye to open discussion and positive constructive critisim about an open source business model is halarious.

F you HQ.
Patrick 2009-11-25
Thanks for putting up with this garbage long enough to share your account of the worst part of the weekend. It is reassuring to hear an account from someone who I know isn't smart enough to make shit up. Having met both you and Dave, I'm sadly not suprised by his behavior, but I am impressed by your self-control in the face of such bullshit arrogance.

Keep up the great work, and thanks for taking the time to teach us skinny-ass CrossFitters how to grow into powerful athletes.
Ed T 2009-11-25
Greg, first I would like to know why you didnt smash that cocky Castro when he grabbed you? I know that the guy is a Seal and all. Anyhow, I attended your Oly class at Robb's shop last year and thought it was great. During that course, I wondered why it took me so long to attend a course like this to provide me with the basics of lifting safely. Lord knows they didnt teach me that at the CF Cert! After attending that cert, I was convinced that I was not ready to teach ANYONE on CF or lifting. Many of the things you discuss in your articles regarding CF is spot on. You are challenging CF Central to become better and have higher standards. They apparently are too elite to accept this type of challenge. Its unfortunate because the brand of CF is slowly diminishing due to poorly run boxes.

As far as I am concerned, you Robb and Aimee are some of the coolest people I have met. You all know your stuff. Castro on the other hand....cocky! Met him at a cert in SD and the guy couldnt waste a second to talk to someone who isnt as ELITE as he is.

Keep up the good work Greg.
Keith Wittenstein 2009-11-25

Good to see you're staying out of trouble. :)

When are you coming back East? We need to hang out and take a yoga class together. It'll relax you!

Seriously, hope you're doing well. Happy Thanksgiving, bro!
Loni Venn 2009-11-25
I vote a video of all relevant presentations in there entirety be posted on sicfit.com. Let the video speak for itself. I know people paid to get to the seminar, so maybe a small fee could be collected for people to watch the whole video. I would pay up.
Anon 2009-11-25
I have to admit, the suggestion that you guys are in a conspiracy against Crossfit HQ doesn't really bother me all that much and, in fact, I'd support it. Better to have some real competition with people who care about standards and excellence. HQ seems to have lost the plot. The way things are going, the community is going to splinter soon anyway and I definitely can think of a short list of like-minded coaches who have dis-affiliated or are just affiliated out of loyalty to the concept.
Ken 2009-11-25
Leo- Wow, I had you pegged all wrong. Through your website and blog, you seem like a guy that would come down on the right side of this issue.

Funny that your blog titled "Truth." is a quote from Greg: "Being prepared for any random task is not the same thing as preparing randomly for any task." - Greg Everett

The very next item is about CF Evolution's "abandonment" of the CFWU and your pursuit for something better. I see this process as no different than what Greg and many others are doing in the community.

What if it were you and your presentation was "A story of CF Evolution's search for a perfect Warm-up." and Castro, Budding & Berger treated you the way that they did Everett, because your methods were counter to the HQ Official CFWU?

Soon you may be the infidel to the infidels...

"...When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out." -Friedrich Gustav Martin Niemöller's

You seem to espouse free thinking and individualism, but I could be wrong.

I kind of hope your post was a joke and you just forgot the emoticons. ;)
Dave 2009-11-25

I'm a fat fuck too. Love your site, love your book, love your products. Keep up the good work.

Björn 2009-11-25
Looking forward to following your programming. Keep up the good work!
PromAth 2009-11-25
Of all the bits of useful information I've ever heard at Catalyst Athletics during visits, seminars, etc., the one that echoes loudest right now is Greg's oft repeated phrase: "Give your people [trainees] some damn credit for being adults!" Greg presents for adults, who should have enough sense to consider all of his useful information despite (or because) of all the tongue-in-cheek-sarcastic-humor. It's all about evidence and data, not the drama. And Greg, Aimee, Rob et al. have evidence and data in spades!

But never mind all this stuff, I didn't know I get a year of free Performance Menu!?!? Sign me up!

Lastly, if Catalyst Athletics started selling those cheesy rubber wrist bands stamped with "F-Y-Y-F-F!", I'd buy one for every member of my affiliate. I hear that from them at least once a day!
Thor 2009-11-25
Fat Fuck's of the world unite!!!!! Up with the F-Y-Y-F-F Crew!

Crazy stuff going on... Glad some people can still remain professional and not let the wheels come completely off the bus. I know I wouldnt have.
Kelly 2009-11-25
As an "outsider" i've always thought of Catalyst Athletics, Crossfit, Performance Menu, and Crossfit Journal to all compliment one another like you stated. CrossFit has lead me to develop a strong interest in Olympic Lifting. I have really enjoyed learning more about Oly lifts and combining them with my CF workouts. I think your post today was VERY tactful and I'm glad to hear that you will continue with your CrossFit affiliation. Keep doing what you are doing!
Aimee 2009-11-25
Jocelyn looks HOT in this picture.
Travis 2009-11-25
Aimee, why are you trying to change the subject?
Chris Schaalo 2009-11-25
Hey Greg (and Nick) ,
Interesting side note, check out the pic posted on Burg's site today, you'll notice a well displayed lack of shrug at the finish of the second pull immediately followed by activated traps with bent arms as the lifter is pulling himself under the bar.
You're a genius.
Joe 2009-11-25
I'm glad the shrug comment created the meltdown because I didn't realize that was incorrect in the second pull. I've been doing it wrong thanks for HQ.

LMFAO @ Leo S claiming this was a media stunt. They manipulated Castro to create some drama and promote a Xfit off shoot? Really? The juice must have damaged your brain cheater.
Justin Smith 2009-11-25
HQ, does that stand for HeadQuarters or HindQuarters?

Steve Lamb 2009-11-25
So will there be a "Fat Fuck" WOD? Maybe on a weekly basis? (Kinda of like Coach Burgener's Old Man Workouts.)

I've (quietly) followed your site for a few years now. Great programming, great book . . . you guys just rock!

I hope to make it by your place the next time on the West Coast.
Justin Riley 2009-11-25
First off, to Greg and Robb, you guys are world class and we here at CF East Sac have learned so much from your blogs, journals, and the time you have taken to personally respond to emails. Wish I had more time to actually make the trip to actually workout with you. We support you guys 100% and believe that HQ has their heads way up their asses. What you both have done has certainly improved the greater CrossFit community.

Second, I hope the following links do not piss anyone off (if they do, then please just remove this part of my post), but Greg, you said you like humor so here is a dose. I personally found both of these hilarious.
Robyn 2009-11-25
The Black Box Summit was the best seminar/event I have ever had the pleasure to attend. Compelling, inspiring and enlightening information delivered by individuals who embody excellence - hours on end sitting on folding chairs and at any time you could have heard a pin drop in that place.

Greg - your lecture was particularly riveting. I had never heard you speak and was blown away. I wish you could have gone on for hours and hours and could coach me every day. You are scary-smart, well-spoken and pretty damn funny. To find out you are also a class-act with self-control, humility and integrity gives me hope for the future of this community.

Please know that the repugnant behavior on display last weekend did not succeed in over-shadowing what you and your colleagues so generously supplied to those who paid to be there. The Affiliate Owners who attended will be forever grateful.

Thank you.


Rob S 2009-11-25
thanks for everything greg!! Its well appreciated.
Chad C 2009-11-25

Your contribution to the Crossfit community has been tremendously invaluable. At the affiliate I worked at, we used to consult the Performance Menu articles regularly, we would incorporate a great deal of your information and advice into our training, and we used both your book and your DVD to teach the Olympic Lifts. Because of the resources you provided, we were able to coach our athletes to a level where they could actually compete in Olympic Weightlifting competitions.

As for the Black Box Summit, I am appalled to hear that you were treated in such a manner. I have literally read all of your articles. I have never felt that you attacked Crossfit, and I personally find your brand of humor quite funny. If we can't stop and laugh at ourselves every once in a while, perhaps we take ourselves too seriously. If you haven't seen it, 2 Crossfitters 1 chalk bucket on youtube is absolutely hilarious and obviously created by a Crossfitter. Anyone who takes offense to these kinds of things is probably a vegan.

I wish you the best, and I hope that this situation is resolved in a manner that will create a better relationship between affiliates and HQ.
Lee 2009-11-25

As someone who has trained at your gym for the last 9 months (since you opened it), and has had the opportunity to train with and at other CF gyms while traveling, I know I am damn lucky to be able to be trained by both you and Aimee. The reality is, you two take what you do quite seriously. You care about your athletes and their success.

Having been to two other gyms recently, I learned what a crappy CF affilate was. One gym was a total farce with the trainer fresh out of the Level 1 cert. I felt like I was back in boot camp with some kid yelling in my face who couldn't even demonstrate a dumbell snatch properly. Standards are a good thing, and should be enforced by HQ.

As someone who works out and has experienced the humor and sarcasm between the lifters and the CF's first hand (from hearing and being a part of), your professionalism and wit has always been entertaining without any malice whatsoever.

Regardless the outcome of this debacle, I will look forward to training with your team as long as you will have me be a part of it.
IT 2009-11-25

I would like to personally thank you for your contributions to the CrossFit community. The way I run my affiliate can be directly associated with reading your performance menu in conjunction with the journal. Results are what drive my clients and results I give them by incorporating a strength biased Box. If it wasn't for the P-menu we all still might be jazzercising 90% of the week.

Oh yeah and Zone vs Paleo. I love the zone and the balance, unfortunately the weighing part never lasts for more than a couple months for myself and anyone else I know. However adherence to Paleo is much more attainable and in fact our gym is in a Paleo Challenge that involves 70% of our membership until the first of the year. Paleo should be the nutritional umbrella over ever affiliate that values nutrition before anything else.

You are and will continue to be The Man!
Jeff Allen 2009-11-25

Thanks for posting this and clearing up even more. Your book and your methods are great. It is a shame this situation unfolded as it did. Keep up the hard work
Dave 2009-11-25
Just wanted to voice my support. I was at the BBS and everything Greg and Robb have written is the way I saw it happen. Greg, your videos, articles, and book have been absolutely paramount in my learning of the olympic lifts. You're the man!
Adam Stanecki 2009-11-25
Thank you for writing up your side of the story.
As an affiliate I'm interested to hear all sides.
Ashley 2009-11-25
No way, if you think those are funny videos, get a load of this.
Tim 2009-11-25
What no comments from Dave Castro...I mean "Rick." Greg and Robb keep up the good work! We are all supporting you!
George 2009-11-26
I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of sensitivity demonstrated by Castro toward "chunky", "chubby", "pleasantly plump" and "big boned" people. Very disappointed.

On a serious note, Greg, you need to have an additional seminar to teach communication, both spoken and written.

Today seems like a most appropriate day to say thanks for all you do!
Brandon Wilton 2009-11-26
I am an affiliate owner and not that my opinion matters greatly but I agree with every PM journal you have put out about crossfit and oly lifting, there seems to be a difference between crossfit oly lifting, and well...real olympic lifting, I own your books and a few of your DVD's as well as a journal subscriber. I wouldnt be nearly as well versed in oly lifts if it werent for your daily wod and all of the information you provide. keep up the good work.
Celio Silva 2009-11-26

You have been an incredible resource to the cross training & olympic weightlifting community; thank you for your dedication to excellence in all that you do; it translates directly into better coaches & athletes all around the world. Your book is absolutely fantastic! I look forward to visiting Catalyst Athletics again soon.

Furthermore, your actions regarding this whole incident have shown you to have tremendous character. Congratulations on keeping such a cool head under such pressure, and thank you for writting such a clear and concise explanation of what is really going on around this incident.

Your work as well as Robb Wolfs' work will continued to be recognized for the enormous contribution they make to understanding & improving fitness, performnace, and health.

Keep trotting strong...

Oh Yeah, and here is THE funniest video regarding CrossFit


Maximus @ CrossFit East Bay 2009-11-26
Repost of my response on robbwolf.com:

I have now read all 425 or so comments that came before this, and all of the source material.

I am an affiliate owner (CrossFit East Bay in Oakland CA) and I know or have met many of the principals here. Greg Glassman changed my life, and while I don't revere him as anything more than a fitness visionary, it is, to me, frankly ridiculous how little credit some people are giving him. I will post below his best response to such misunderstandings. For once, I largely agree with Barry Cooper, above.

I am a bit older (43) and have been into fitness since the 1980s. I used to read every fitness mag I could get my hands on for, I guess, decades. I NEVER saw anything remotely like CF. I never heard of a double-under, a muscle-up, a kipping pull-up, a dynamax ball (or wall-ball), a thruster, a kettlebell, the zone diet, paleo, IF, tabata, etc etc etc. I was vaguely aware that rings existed and that these weird guys in tights lifted huge funny looking weights in the Olympics, and that a rower existed, but it never occurred to me to use these things. I never saw anything remotely like Fight Gone Bad, and I challenge anyone to point me to something like it that pre-dates CrossFit. When I discovered CF in 03 or 04 it really blew my mind, but not until I trained with Josh and Keith at CF Black Box, the 18th affiliate.

As I said I am a bit older, and have an administration background as well. I am disappointed in what I am seeing here from all sides. There is a whole lot of dick-measuring and airing of grievances, old and new, going on. While there may have been some pent-up feeling that needed to be discharged, it has been done, the issues are out there, and, as an affiliate owner and member of this community I ask that we take a deep breath and dial it back a notch on all sides.

This community has experienced explosive growth, and I think it is silly to pretend there are no issues. A med ball clean might not be the best progression to the clean. Teaching someone with zero experience how to snatch with a PVC pipe does not prepare them optimally to teach the snatch. The explanation that it is impractical to use barbells with so many people does not hold water. Inconvenient, yes, expensive, yes. Impractical, no. It is possible that the current programming template of .com could be improved. It is clear that a whole foods diet is healthier than Zone, Pringles, Coors Lite and Skirt steak (personally I think zone/paleo + milk is the way to go). The level 1 Cert is not as valuable a product as it was when Coach taught them himself (I have been to both versions). The .com only to prepare for the games is not optimal unless one already has perfect balance in all 10 areas of fitness. Even then training once a day to prepare for a multi-day multi-event competition would be insanity.

Recently one of my athletes started training the O-lifts with Greg Everett. This forced me to recognize that what I had learned so far in CF regarding the O-lifts was demonstrably inferior (but still an order of magnitude better than what I knew before CF, i.e. zilch). I admitted my sub-optimal teaching to my athletes and we are now working on improving our O-lifts, but not at the expense of GPP or not following a .com-like template.

Greg Glassman and CrossFit have given us all an incredible gift, for which I am truly thankful, but they have started a wildfire which cannot be easily managed, nor is that necessarily a bad thing. E-Bay was started on a wing and a prayer - basically not even a beta product thrown out there, and then the owners started reacting to every piece of feedback they received and built a killer app. Their community base is the basis of their success and they jealously build, guard and protect it. CrossFit should do the same. Listen. Grow. Evolve.

I know Greg Glassman and I believe in him as a businessman, fitness visionary and really just a good down-to-earth guy. I have had my issues with HQ and I know this is not the kindest gentlest organization on earth, but given what we do doesn't that make a certain amount of sense?

Now, goddammit, let's chalk to the elbows and get back to working out. See you in the garage.

Maximus Bernard Lewin
Owner, Lead Trainer
CrossFit East Bay
Joe 2009-11-27
"given what we do doesn't that make a certain amount of sense?"

Maximus, doesn't what make a certain amount of sense? I have no idea what your point is in that long post.

You say you are disappointed with everyone involved. Wolf and Everett have shown nothing but class in their handling of this situation. They were teaching people how to train and HQ showed up to disrupt them while they were earning their living. Ironically, that's verfied by Berger's story.

This isn't one of those situations where there's "plenty of blame to go around." There isn't.

My take on this situation is that Xfit simply doesn't want to admit that they have been giving paying customers bad advice at their over priced certification seminars. The idea of the WODs evolving as HQ acquires more data sounds good in theory but in practice it's a little tougher to put into effect when you've collected a few million while telling people to clean medicine balls and deadlift improperly.

Maximus @ CF East Bay 2009-11-27

Just saying we workout until we are lying in pools of our own sweat and vomit (jk) so it makes sense to me that we might not be the kindest, gentlest hippies on earth.

You are making some assumptions about my post: I am talking to the larger community, specifically those who weighed in on Robb's post, but since it seems not clear whom I was addressing, let me talk about the principals who were involved in this very public dispute.

Robb - clearly he has been holding in some vitrol for some time and he really let it fly; "glass man", calling Tony and Dave, basically, stupid, however overall he has been fairly measured.
Greg - agreed, nothing but class all the way, 100% especially based on how Dave (by all accounts) went off on him.
Dave - clearly lost his cool. At the very least, quite unprofessional.
Tony - There was no need for him to weigh on the first post to say that Robb being fired was a "long time coming"

ALL of this should have been handled behind the scenes, without drama, or at least public drama. Unprofessional and tarnishes the image of our community.

Everyone Else: The CrossFit .com zombies who seem to be fixated on "without CF no one would have ever heard of you" - this is a speculative post hoc argument, without CF, who knows what might have happened? The CF haters who are the ones with the absolute nastiest comments, some of which don't even rise to the level of discourse.

I'm sorry you had trouble understanding my post. I hope this helps.
Tommy Saxondale 2009-11-27
Dave Castro- US Navy Seals,"elite" fighting unit! Or so they are fond of claiming!

If I ever cross paths with him and he misbehaves he will incur my sever displeasure and I will be forced to administer him a damn fine thrashing for good measure.

Love from a real "elite" unit. Do you dare to win Dave?

Dan 2009-11-27
It sounds to me that Mr. Castro was just dissapointed you just didn't go up there and say something like "Teaching the Olymipic Lifts in a Crossfit Setting: Don't make any changes, because there is nothing which can be improved upon." What you did wrong was try to correct someone/thing that isn't receptive to change or criticism.

Mr. Glassman speaks often about the free market approach of CF and how the quality and fundamental excellence of CF programming will naturaly draw people to it, away from other shittier forms of training. Sort of like a survival of the fittest. I guess they just don't like to apply that same logic within their own organisation.

I now view CF as a great movement whose contribution to the fitness industry is immeasurable, however I think CF is going to continue to become less and less relevent unless it starts to adapt. Atleast it will serve as a gateway for people to get introduced to the barbell, and to trainers like you and Robb.

Alicia 2009-11-27
I admire your integrity in this matter Greg and I wish I could meet you and train at your box.
Vanessa 2009-11-27
I love your humble attitude and stubborn civility. Great sense of humor. Keep it up, you are doing your part to keep Crossfit together, maybe Robb Wolf and Castro can learn about professionalism from you. Where is Greg Glassman when we need him to be a leader, not just a revolutionary?

The Crossfit family is having it's own Thanksgiving fight, like many other families...
George Mounce 2009-11-28
This solidifies what I was saying a year ago...funny how it comes out from time to time from us nobodies. When the big names get involved, the little people who brought up the same problems all around with CFHQ are forgotten.

Classy Greg, I've always enjoyed being part of your community much more, which is why my workout log will always be there.
Mike OD 2009-11-28
As Henry Rollins once said (http://www.gittlen.com/rollins.htm):

"I have never met a truly strong person who didn't have self-respect. I think a lot of inwardly and outwardly directed contempt passes itself off as self-respect: the idea of raising yourself by stepping on someone's shoulders instead of doing it yourself. When I see guys working out for cosmetic reasons, I see vanity exposing them in the worst way, as cartoon characters, billboards for imbalance and insecurity. Strength reveals itself through character. It is the difference between bouncers who get off strong-arming people and Mr. Pepperman.

Muscle mass does not always equal strength. Strength is kindness and sensitivity. Strength is understanding that your power is both physical and emotional. That it comes from the body and the mind. And the heart."

Greg and Robb, you have tremendous "strength", keep up the great work....as for the rest, maybe they need some time in the Iron gym.
Will 2009-11-28
People may consider CF to be a community, but CFHQ is neither the head of family nor the leadership of a community. CFHQ is running a for-profit business that sells highly priced and worthless certificates, publishes a comic book, lures complete fitness novices into license agreements under which they can open gyms and injure other fitness novices, and apparently has entered an agreement with Barry Sears to promote a starvation diet. I know there are some good people who train in CF affiliates, but CFHQ is nothing I want to associate with, which is why I am not a member of any of these gyms.
Ron Nelson 2009-11-28
At times like this, you should do as I do; ask yourself, "What would Dan Silver do?"

The answer? Have another.

Leo S.= roid rage?
Kevin Perry 2009-11-28
I think Greg, Aimee, Robb and Rutherford have all given so much to the community and they are sincerely kind people who are very compassionate about their work. I am and will always be glad to be apart of this community and regardless that I am not great at the olympic lifts, having my own coach who even teaches the same fundamentals and recommends Greg's and Mike's sites as some of the best resources for Weightlifting gives me a great appreciation for what they do for the community. Keep up the good work guys.

P.S. One day I will be in the fat-fuck status too.
Dee 2009-11-28
DAVE CASTRO SHOULD BE MADE TO MAKE A PUBLIC APOLOGY TO THE CROSSFIT COMMUNITY AND/OR FIRED AS DIRECTOR OF TRAINING! Whether you agree with the statements being made at a seminar or not, you do not act in the manner that he did at The Black Box Summit. His language was disgusting and in any other business setting he would be heavily reprimanded. He literally tried to fight another trainer over a disagreement in lifting technique, which is deplorable. No one has all the answers and Casto's actions are a black eye on an otherwise respectable community of continuing education.
Ray 2009-11-29
This has been such an entertaining week reading all of the comments on the message boards, the speculation, the finger pointing, and the blackslapping and massaging.

When distilled to its essence, it's really all very infantile--on both sides. When people get emotionally attached to their methodologies, it transmogrifies into plain ole vanilla human nature aggression.

At the end of the day, this will blow over. Robb Wolf will write his book, and become mega rich. Greg Everett will be known as a mecca for all things Olympic Lifting. CrossFit will explode on the World stage, as it's already doing in Europe, poised to light like a flash fire in the same fashion that it did in the U.S.

Thanks for the days of entertainment. Mildly interesting, but most serious trainers and trainees could give a hoot about the workings of Dave Castro, Robb Wolf, and Greg Everett. They just want a good workout, want to sweat, learn a skill, and go home.

The rest are the "intelligentsia" that find time to craft witty asides, pointy comebacks, sharp jabs, ad infinitum...

It's all very silly.

All we're doing is working out.

Thanks for the laughs guys...Good reading....
Joe 2009-11-29
LMFAO @ Crossfit "exploding on the world stage." More like imploding. Anyone who attends a certification after these revelations is nothing but a fool. There is nothing infantile about trainers defending their reputations from Glassman's slanderous remarks.
Larry 2009-11-29
What revelations? Am I missing something? Please tell!
Freddy 2009-11-29
Other than Greg being called a name that was inappropriate, and pre-existing tensions between the SME and HQ that bubbled forth at the wrong time, there's nothing much else to report about. Keep training guys. Don't get caught up in the hype.

George 2009-11-29
Ray, stop drinking so much Kool-aid. What is infantile was your post.
Smitty 2009-11-29

Blah blah blah.

Blah blah BLAH blah, blah: (blah blah, and blah).

Blah-- blah blah blah, blah blah and blah.


Blah blah blah, blah blah blah, @ blah, blah blah, BLAH!


Blah B. Blah

Susan 2009-11-29
Ray's post was actually near genius, IMHO. Boys will be boys...
Larry 2009-11-29
Greg gives us hope for all us Fat Fucks out there! Greg for Governor!
Ian 2009-11-29
One of the most common problems in our most intimate interpersonal relationships is the human tendency to take your loved one for granted. We overlook most of the wonderful things about the significant other that led us to become so intimately involved with them, and begin to focus mostly on the things that we do not like about them. These things are often quite petty. We tend, as humans, to easily act with tremendous lack of gratitude. It destroys relationships. Often later, we regret that we didn't appreciate all of the wonderful things about that person, once time has allow perhaps a more objective perspective of the situation. This is human nature - to complain, to focus on the negatives, and to see the grass as greener.

I enjoy Robb and Greg's websites, and the knowledge that they share. I would love the opportunity to spend some time with either of them. I respect both of them greatly. Yet, I would not have known either if not for Crossfit. Yet it is undeniable that the modicum of success that Robb and Greg have experienced can be directly attributed to Greg Glassman's Crossfit. If not for Crossfit, there would be miniscule website traffic, a fraction of the income, and none of this status they have as well respected "SMEs" in the Crossfit Community, and all of the perks that go along with that. In reality, they'd probably be just another dime a dozen frustrated personal trainers, if they hadn't given up by now.

What I see here is a tremendous lack of gratitude to Crossfit, and Greg Glassman in particular. If indeed Greg started his seminar with the "we all make mistakes" comment as indicated by Berger, I can understand why Castro and Budding did not appreciate the sentiment. This is not to excuse Castro's reaction, which was completely unprofessional, and basically proved that he is unfit to hold a position of that significance in a corporation of the size of Crossfit.

Yet, this reaction to Castro's little blowup is equal in being completely out of proportion. So he is a cocky, arrogant, unprofessional, insecure, and fiercely loyal right hand man to Crossfit. Crossfit has grown so quickly that growing pains like this are to be expected. Castro is in all likelihood beyond rehabilitation, and unfit for his position, which at this juncture requires somebody with more tactful and professional commicication skills, such as Budding or Carroll. Yet all of this probably should have been addressed directly with Greg Glassman, and not by publication in the community. The result of this publicized conflict has been a movement against Crossfit, by many people too caught up in their present emotions to be able to recognize the level of ingratitude they all share toward the fitness movement which has provided so many positive life changes to all of those taking time to participate.

Blowups like this are not excusable, yet happen all the time in any organization wherein the people involved are extremely passionate about their work. The difference is that most have the experience to know that they should be dealt with behind closed doors, so as not to get out of hand, like this whole situation has gotten. This is just an inevitable growing pain which has arisen from the exponential growth of Crossfit. At this point, it would probably be best for everybody to resolve their differences through communication and compromise, and to remember that Greg Glassman deserves to be treated with a certain amount of respect and deference, given the impact he has had on our lives.
Louise Smith 2009-11-30
Since my move away from San Jose, I am stuck with working out at a globo gym or at home and am struggling with maintaining a connection with the community online instead of through a box. It has been a challenge, so I suppose it doesn't make much sense that I am so very grateful for this incident. But because of this incident I have found some previously hidden gems within the community and I am daily adding to my RSS subscriptions! Thanks!
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