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Monday September 22 2008
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George 2008-09-21
In the video he speaks of torque. I'm wondering where the torque vector is, or if he really means a shearing strain.

Sorry for the physics but I'm confused on this issue.
George 2008-09-21
I should make note I'm talking specifically about the lower back, not the hips, knees, or ankles.
Greg Everett 2008-09-21
George - The bar is creating a rotational force on the hip, i.e. torque. The back is transmitting it, i.e. it's the moment arm. Each one of the intervertebral joints is experiencing a rotational force, not shear, in that capacity, i.e. they are each axes for torque. To achieve a shear force, you'd have to place support under two vertebra and a direct downward force on one in between - otherwise, any weight attached to the top of the spine is going to simply flex the back as the chain of previous vertebrae resist the force trying to pull them down. As far as the vector goes, I don't see where that fits in really - it would be perpendicular to the force, which is always going to be vertically down (unless the bar is swinging, I suppose). It's more helpful just to think of it in very practical terms - in what position does you back do more work (and get more fatigued) when supporting a load - closer to vertical or leaning over horizontally?
Richard Vanmeerbeek 2008-09-22
Sn : 70kg
C&j : 87.5kg
Fs : 95kg
Bs : 110kg x 3 x 5
pull-ups : 3 x 7 +22kg
GHD sit-ups + pistols

Wider grip on the snatch, felt like a breeze today.
tommi k 2008-09-22
Snatch - 73.5kg
C&J - 103.5kg
Front squat - 120kg
Pull ups 3x10 - bw.

15 slow GHD sit ups
10 side bends 32kg/per side
Jody Woodland 2008-09-22
Eyes glaze over alert..

If I remember my uni physics correctly, the moment arm (back) is subject to both shear and torque when loaded at the "free" end (shoulders) and supported at the "pinned" end (hips). The vectors in a free body diagram of the back would show the load downwards at the shoulders, the load upwards at the hips, and a torque at the hips. As Greg noted, any intermediate cross-section of the back would also need a torque to resist bending. In addition, it would also need to resist shear. That said, torsion is the key factor.
Greg Everett 2008-09-22
Thanks for the clarification Jody. I think what I should have mentioned as well is that, as I understand it, the overwhelming majority of the shear force present is managed by the connective tissue holding the spine together - so what we're left with for the muscles in question to resist is the torque.
KCFB4 2008-09-22
Sn - 140lb
CJ - 200lb
FS - 235

PU - 30lb, 20lb, 15lb x10
David Osorio 2008-09-22
Those posters really tie the room together.
ryan 2008-09-22
Snatch - 155 lbs x 1 x 4
1 Clean + 2 Jerk - 135lbs x 1 x 4
Front Squat - 235 x 2 x 3
Pull-up - 3 x 10

Sit-up - 3 x 15
Sidebend - 50 lbs x 10 x 3

I'm having trouble with the jerk portion of the C&J. I think I may be putting too much shoulder into it (because they hurt like the dickens midway thru the jerk). Today I actually jumped off the floor during the jerk instead of just heaving the weight off my chest while keeping my toes on the floor. I think I may have a better idea about this notion of "throwing yourself under the bar".

Secondly, I think another problem with my shoulders is they seem to round forward rather than stay in line with my ears. Any solutions?
Eric Brandom 2008-09-22
Snatch - 170
C&J - 225
FS - 235
Pullup +25#

GHD Situps 3x15
Sidebends - 120lb DB 3x10e

I did the Mainsite WOD today - Isabel
3:06 as RX'd
Big thanks to Greg and the programming on this website.
ken c 2008-09-22

great time on isabel. are you able to hang on to the bar and do touch and go's on that or are you dropping the weight?
Eric Brandom 2008-09-22
I drop the weight. My time would've been way slower because of grip fatigue if I had held on to it.
Greg Everett 2008-09-22
Ryan - On the jerk, once the bar leaves your shoulders, your feet should be off the floor and moving into the receiving position. So it sounds like you figured that out.RE shoulders rounding forward, when is this happening?
ryan 2008-09-22
Yeah, I should have been more clear. This rounding of the shoulders is when I am at rest i.e. my "natural" posture. I only bring this up as I've read this is a result from an imbalance in chest and back training and that at rest your shoulders should be in line with your ears. Train your chest more than your back and the chest begins to pull the shoulders forward.

I thought the pain I experience may, in part, stem from this posture issue. If my shoulders are sitting to far forward, maybe there is excess strain being put on my shoulder muscles. Of course I squeeze the shoulder blades together and contract the traps and it seems like this helps ease the strain. What I was getting at was whether I should work in rows or some other exercise that my help "pull" my shoulders back into their natural position.
Greg Everett 2008-09-22
Ryan - If you have the flexibility to get that correct posture, it's probably just a matter of not having conditioning the body to hold that position - i.e. force yourself consciously to do it as much as you can and it will eventually become natural. If not, get as much shoulder girdle stretching in as you can, and yes, you can try some rowing-type exercises to help encourage it.
Jonathan 2008-09-22
Snatch: 120# x1x4
C&J: 160# x1x4
FS: 185# x2x3
PU: 3x10xBW (192#)

3 sets of : A. GHD SU- Slow x10 x BW
B. DB SIde Bends x10 x90#
Jesse Woody 2008-09-22
F*%#ed up my back on light snatches in a personal training session yesterday...walked like a hunchback until my massage this afternoon. Hip flexor pulling on my lumbar...out for at least the week, and I was so looking forward to this.

Oh well, back to posting on various strength forums :(
Jerry B 2008-09-22
Snatch: 125#
C&J: 165% (90%)
FS: 165#
PU: 3x10xBW
Matt Wichlinski 2008-09-22
Snatch 205 x 1 x 4 with a few missed attempts
C n J 260 x 1 x 4
FS 315 x 3 x 3
Gordo 2008-09-22
At the hotel "health club" in DC, so had to modify things a bit...

Hang Power snatch + 2 OHS 105lb x 4
Clean + Push-Jerk + Jerk 155lb x 4
Power clean + 5 Front squat 155lb x 3

Pull-ups 25lb x 10 x 3

Knees to elbows 15 x 2

Matt Dyson 2008-09-22
Snatch - 105# x 1 x 4
Clean & jerk - 150# x 1 x 4
Front squat - 215# x 2 x 3
Pull-ups - 3 x 10 with 20#(weighted if needed)
3 sets of:
A. GHD sit-ups - 15 slow
B. Sidebends - 70# DB 10/side
Jesse Woody 2008-09-22
Gordo, we're in DC, right downtown, shoot me an email if you're still around and want to hit up the workout at our place, we have two clients who are doing the P-menu WOD in the evenings around 5:30-6:00
JD 2008-09-22
Snatch - 83kg x 1 x 4
Clean & jerk - 102kg x 1 x 4
Front squat - 120kg x 2 x 3
Pull-ups - 3 x 10
Cullen F 2008-09-22
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a side bend in this context? Too late to do it right tonight, but at least I'll know next time.
Greg Everett 2008-09-22
Cullen - Stand with a weight in one arm at your side. Bend to one side as far as you can, and to the other side as far as you can - that's one rep. Make sure you're not leaning forward or backward as you bend.
Rick 2008-09-23
Sn: 100#
C&J: 157.5#
FS: 170#
PU's: 10x3(BW, BW+15#x2)

incline situps 15x3
side bends w/65#
Alex Europa 2008-09-23
Snatch - 120 x 1 x 4
Clean & jerk - 170 x 1 x 4
Front squat - 225 x 2 x 3

Snatches felt much better today than on Saturday.
ADR 2008-09-24
Sn: 125#
C&J: 170#
FS: 205#
PU's: 3 x 10 (BW)

3 rounds:
GHD Sit-ups 15 rep slow (BW)
Sidebends 10 rep/side (55#)
Jody Woodland 2008-09-25
Doing as scheduled, just behind on posting.

SN - 135#
CJ - 170#
FS - 215#
PU - 3x10 -55 assist
3 x 15 GHD slow, 10 side bends @ 70/70/90#
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